hehehe .....sorry @Bung riandono,  mau saya koreksi keburu terkoreksi duluan.  Terima kasih.


Saya bukannya tidak percaya bahwa HIV itu tidak ada. HIV ada,  tetapi tidak berbahaya. Dan hal itu sesuai apa yang dikatakan oleh penemunya,  jauh sebelum penemunya mendapat Nobel di tahun 2008.   

 Bagaimana pendapat  anda terhadap pernyataan Penemu HIV, Luc Montagnier,   di akhir tahun 2009 tersebut di bawah ini  :


The transcript between Brent Leung and Dr. Luc Montagnier

Leung [the filmmaker]: You talked about oxidative stress earlier. Is treating oxidative stress one of the best ways to deal with the African AIDS epidemic?

Montagnier [the scientist]: I think this is one way to approach, to decrease the rate of transmission, because I believe HIV we can be exposed to HIV many times without bring chronically infected, our immune system will get rid of the virus within a few weeks, if you have a good immune system; and this is the problem also of the African people. Their nutrition is not very equilibrated, they are in oxidative stress, even if they are not infected with HIV; so their immune system doesn't work well already. So it's prone, it can, you know, allow HIV to get in and persist. So there are many ways which are not the vaccine, the magic name, the vaccine, many ways to decrease the transmission just by simple measures of nutrition, giving antioxidants -- proper antioxidants -- hygiene measures, fighting the other infections. So they are not spectacular, but they could, you know, decrease very well the epidemic, to the level they are in occidental countries, western countries.

Leung: So if you have a good immune system, then your body can naturally get rid of HIV?

Montagnier: Yes.

Leung: Oh, interesting. Do you think we should have more of a push for antioxidants, and things of that nature, in Africa than antiretrovirals (AIDS drugs)?

Montagnier: We should push for more, you know, a combination of measures; antioxidants, nutrition advice, nutritions, fighting other infections -- malaria, tuberculosis, parasitosis, worms -- education of course, genital hygiene for women and men also, very simple measures which [are] not very expensive, but which could do a lot. And this is my, actually my worry about the many spectacular action for the global funds to buy drugs and so on, and Bill Gates and so on, for the vaccine. But you know those kind of measures are not very well funded, they're not funded at all, or they are, you know, it really depends on the local government to take choice of this, but local governments they take advice of the scientific advisors from the intelligent institutions, and they don't get this kind of advice very often.

Leung: Well there's no money in nutrition, right? There's no profit.

Montagnier: there's no profit, yes. Water is important. Water is key.

Leung: Now one thing you said, you were talking about the fact that if you have a built immune system, it is possible to get rid of HIV naturally. If you take a poor African who's been infected and you build up their immune system, is it possible for them to also naturally get rid of it?

Montagnier: [Nodding yes] I would think so.

Leung: That's an important point.

Montagnier: It's important knowledge which is completely neglected. , no?  People always think of drugs and vaccine. So this is a message which may be different from what you heard before

Leung: The closing?

Montagnier: No, no, yes, my message, it's different from what you heard from (Anthony) Fauci or...

Leung: Yes, it's a little different.

Montagnier: Little different.

http://www.naturalnews.com/027631_AIDS_House_of_Numbers.html

Bagaimana pendapat  anda terhadap pernyataan Penemu HIV, Luc Montagnier,   di akhir tahun 2009 tersebut di bawah ini  :

The transcript between Brent Leung and Dr. Luc Montagnier
http://www.naturalnews.com/027631_AIDS_House_of_Numbers.html

Pendapat saya ttg interview Leung and Dr. Luc Montagnier:

Tidak ada sesuatu yang baru dalam percakapan itu, yang menyatakan AIDS tidak disebabkan HIV dan atau HIV tidak berbaya.
 
Ilmu medis, adalah bukan ilmu politik, kata2 seseorang tidak bisa dijadikan dasar teori tanpa menunjukkan bukti riset/karya ilmiahnyanya. Percakapan ini tidak termasuk dalam suatu karya ilmiah, sehingga tidak bisa dijadikan dasar teori.   

Ttg karya Mr. Montagnier dalam perkembangan HIV AIDS secara komprehensif lebih bijak bila kita baca dari Nobel Lecture-nya sendiri
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19618403
kalo disitu dia mengatakan HIV tidak berbahaya dan tidak meyebabkan AIDS, tunjukkanlah

Kutip dari: riandono pada Juli 04, 2010, 10:59:21 PM

NB: mas ireng kalo bisa jgn pake argumen2 lama kaum denialist, seperti hipotesis duesberg, Durban Declaration Rebuttal, Ten Lies .. dsb
skrg argumen2 itu udah patah. Mgkn mas ireng perlu cari yg lain yg lebih up to date

Bukannya saya membela Peter Duesberg dkk para AIDS Denialist,  saya cuma ingin tahu mana yang bener saja.  Dan tidak tepat mengatakan bahwa argumen2 mereka sudah patah,  justru argumen2 mereka itu berhasil membongkar  '  kecurangan  ' yang dilakukan oleh Robert C. Gallo dkk.   Mau bukti,  silakan tanya mr google saja  ...........

Bahkan ada yang masih berpendapat bahwa HIV itu sebenarnya tidak ada,  Dr. Stefan Lanka dll :

Dr. Stefan Lanka, virologist and molecular biologist, is internationally mostly known as an "AIDS dissident" (and maybe "gentechnology dissident") who has been questioning the very existence of "HIV" since 1994. In the past years, however, he stumbled over a breathtaking fact: Not even ONE of the (medically relevant) viruses has ever been isolated; there is no proof of their existence. Actually, Dr. Lanka has already stated three years ago, in the almost "legendary" Zenger�s interview: "So for a long time I studied virology, from the end to the beginning, from the beginning to the end, to be absolutely sure that there was no such thing as HIV. And it was easy for me to be sure about this because I realized that the whole group of viruses to which HIV is said to belong, the retroviruses -- as well as other viruses which are claimed to be very dangerous -- in fact do not exist at all." So he was thoroughly reading the literature on those "other viruses" again, and after he could still not find any paper which would provide the evidence, he encouraged people not to BELIEVE him but to ask the institutes and authorities themselves. This has actually taken place, mostly initiated by mothers. The responses were revealing. In September 2001 the German book "Impfen - V�lkermord im dritten Jahrtausend?" (Vaccination - Genocide in the third millennium?) by Stefan Lanka and Karl Krafeld was published in which they state that there is still no proof of any (medically relevant) virus.

http://www.neue-medizin.com/lanka2.htm

Dan tentang bukunya Etienne de Harven,  saya belum punya data bahwa ada yang telah berhasil mematahkan argumennya  ..............itu buku relatif masih baru,  diterbitkan pada tahun 2008 ........

Jika pada dekade yl kontroversi bisa dikatakan berlangsung antara Peter Duesberg dkk vs Robert C.Gallo dkk  -  dan Gallo  '  kalah  '  -   perkembangan terakhir kelihatannya cenderung berlangsung antara Luc Montagnier vs Anthony Fauci  .............

Tunjukkan argumen lama Duesberg dkk yang belum patah.

Kecurangan R. Gallo apakah yang anda maksud? Bila masalah polemik sapa penemu HIV? Isu ini sudah jadul mas.  L. Montagnier dan R. Gallo bahkan telah menulis bersama (co-writing)  sebuah essay sejarah penemuan HIV
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12459577

Pernyataan Dr. Stefan Lanka: SALAH (mungkin di jaman dia belum berkembang biotek, krn dlm link  yg anda beri http://www.neue-medizin.com/lanka2.htm dia hanya membahas foto2 seperti roy suryo tanpa ada data pemetaan genetik)

TTg buku Etienne de Harven, saya tidak tau, boleh dituliskan argumen yg dimaksud dia apa aja?

Duesberg vs Gallo - Gallo kalah? sekali lagi tunjukkan


Saya mau tanya mas? Adakah karya kaum denialist yang dipublish dalam jurnal ilmiah? semakin baru (kira2 kurang dari 5 tahun) semakin baik. Itu yang kita jadikan acuan diskusi kita selanjutnya..

Dasar anak2 kedokteran pragmatis banget dah Kaya bikin skripsi Aja

maaf ganggu saya cuma mau Tanya beda sindrom sama penyakit itu apa saya pernah dengar katanya beda ya?

Bung @ riandono,  mari bicara sisi sains HIV,  mohon anda jelaskan saja :

-  Asal-usul HIV / bukti ilmiah asal-usul virus tersebut.

-  Hasil riset siapa yang anda maksudkan telah dapat dibuktikan secara ilmiah / sains,  bahwa HIV menyebabkan AIDS.

Mungkin pandangan saya tentang HIV selama ini hanya terpengaruh oleh propaganda / opini dari Duesberg,  David Crowe,  Roberto Giraldo dll,  oleh sebab itu saya ingin tahu,  sesungguhnya yang benar yang mana ?

ttg asal-usul HIV-AIDS bisa dibaca disini, bahasanya mudah dipahami, juga disertai referensi:
http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm

ttg perkembangan riset "HIV menyebabkan AIDS", bisa dibaca disini, mudah dipahami juga:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/HIVAIDS/Understanding/howHIVCausesAIDS/Pages/relationshipHIVAIDS.aspx

Masnya nih sebenarnya membaca nggak link yg saya kasih?

yang anda maksudkan "asal usul HIV" itu apakah?
apakah analog dengan pertanyaan "asal usul manusia"? Seperti yg dibahas di forum2 agama vs atheis gt?

Asal-usul HIV yang terdapat di link www.avert.org itu adalah data lama - tahun 1999 -  dan itu pula yang ikut  ' dideklarasikan ' di Durban.  Apa sudah baca Durban Declaration Rebuttal  ?