Tentu saja Durban Declaration ngga " berani "  menyebut SIV itu sebagai asal-usul HIV,  cuma " berani " menulis :  HIV-1 ......is a retrovirus closely related to SIV......dstnya,  Dan anda Bung @riandono,  berani mengklaim bahwa asal-usul HIV itu dari Afrika Barat ??   

Hayo,  jangan2 anda belum baca bantahan tentang hal itu ?  Saya kutipkan secara lengkap saja bagian itu :


  AIDS spreads by infection, like many other diseases, such as tuberculosis and malaria, that cause illness and death particularly in underprivileged and impoverished communities. HIV-1, which is responsible for the AIDS pandemic, is a retrovirus closely related to a simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) that infects chimpanzees. HIV-2, which is prevalent in West Africa and has spread to Europe and India, is almost indistinguishable from an SIV that infects sooty mangabey monkeys Although HIV-1 and HIV-2 first arose as zoonoses2 - infections transmitted from animals to humans - both now spread among humans through sexual contact; from mother to infant; and via contaminated blood.

   An animal source for an infection is not unique to HIV. The plague came from rodents and influenza from birds. The new Nipah virus in Southeast Asia reached humans via pigs. Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in the United Kingdom is identical to 'mad cow' disease. Once HIV became established in humans, it soon followed human habits and movements. Like many other viruses, HIV recognizes no social, political or geographic boundaries.

COMMENT: It is widely claimed that HIV and AIDS spread by infection, but much of the scientific evidence shows that AIDS does not always act like an infectious disease. In the US and other affluent countries, contrary to wild predictions of the 1980's, AIDS has not spread outside the original risk groups - homosexual men, IV drug users, hemophiliacs and blood transfusion recipients. CDC HIV/AIDS surveillance reports clearly show that AIDS has dropped in the heterosexual population, and yet media reports continue to claim (quoting deceptive percentages) that it is increasing (CDC, 1999). While it has been argued that other infectious diseases are similarly limited by behavior, many facts cast serious doubt on the idea that a single, sexually-transmissible agent can account for all cases of AIDS. In Africa the loose AIDS definition (described below) and lack of HIV testing sweep most illness into the AIDS basket. In fact, the AIDS definitions differ so drastically from one part of the world to another that it is not credible for UNAIDS or WHO to claim to be tracking a distinct disease. Following is a series of examples from the medical literature that directly contradict the claims made above in the Durban Declaration. The claims of an infectious spread through sexual and blood to blood contact can only survive by ignoring or disregarding the results below.

    * The infectious disease theory cannot explain why an extensive study of IV drug users showed that those who exclusively used clean needle exchange programs were 10 times MORE likely to be HIV-positive than those who never used clean needle exchange programs (Bruneau, 1997).

    * A 10 year study of sexual partners (one HIV+, one HIV-) recorded NO cases of sexual transmission. This same study concluded that it would take about 1,000 instances of heterosexual intercourse to transmit HIV once (Padian, 1997).

    * A study of 21 haemophiliacs revealed only two HIV+ wives, neither of whom had AIDS, and only one of whom had an abnormal immune cell count (Kreiss, 1986).

    * The CDC admits that transmission of HIV through discarded needles is extremely rare as HIV is quickly inactivated when dried - yet the preparation of Factor VIII and IX involves extensive heating, freezing and drying and supposedly HIV comes through unscathed. Other explanations for why hemophiliacs test positive are more compelling (more on this to follow).

    * If HIV is transmitted in blood and other bodily fluids, one would expect health care workers who are most likely to be exposed to these substances to be infected quite regularly. Of 733,374 AIDS cases reported in the U.S. through the end of 1999, only 25 are believed to have been occupationally transmitted. And, this conclusion is from negative evidence (i.e. health care workers who are HIV-positive, but not homosexual, drug abusers, haemophiliacs or blood transfusion recipients are assumed to have been infected occupationally). The CDC has reported not a single case of confirmed occupational transmission in surgeons and paramedics (CDC, 1999).

hei mas, yang anda bold itu ngomongin bantahan apa?
COMMENT: It is widely claimed that HIV and AIDS spread by infection, but much of the scientific evidence shows that AIDS does not always act like an infectious disease. In the US and other affluent countries, contrary to wild predictions of the 1980's, AIDS has not spread outside the original risk groups

Itu tentang penularannya, bukan tentang asal usul.
dan tahu maksudnya risk groups nggak?

Aha,  anda belum paham dengan kalimat yang saya bold,  dan mengira saya tidak tahu bahwa itu bicara soal penularan,  dan anda bahkan mengira saya tidak mengerti dengan yang dimaksud risk group ??  Oho,  ternyata anda belum ngeh kaitan antara kalimat yang saya bold tersebut dengan asal-usul HIV yang dikatakan berasal dari Afrika Barat tsb.   Anda belum ngeh dengan bantahan terhadap Deklarasi Durban itu.

Begini saja,  jawab dan jelaskan secara singkat :

1.  Apa anda yakin bahwa HIV berasal dari SIV yang  " menular " dari binatang ke manusia,  kemudian menyebar dan berkembang menjadi epidemi di dunia ?

2.  Telah diketahui bahwa " penularan HIV " sangat tinggi di Afrika sub-Sahara,  dan diketahui pula bahwa orang2 berkulit hitam lebih mudah terinfeksi HIV dibandingkan dengan orang2 berkulit putih,  sehingga di Amerika sempat dikatakan AIDS adalah Black Disease.
Tahukah anda bahwa hasil penelitian terbaru di Indonesia - kira2 bulan Juni yl - dan hasilnya sangat mengejutkan,  bahwa  " penularan HIV " di Papua ternyata tertinggi di Asia !!  Hasil penelitian di Papua ini seolah-olah membenarkan bahwa AIDS adalah Black Disease.  Bisa anda jelaskan kaitan isu Black Disease ini dengan asal-usul HIV ??

@semut
makanya sebelumnya saya pernah tanyakan ke anda:

yang anda maksudkan "asal usul HIV" itu apa?
apakah origin? atau how to spread? atau apapun itu maksud anda?

Saya paham dengan kalimat yang anda bold,
COMMENT: It is widely claimed that HIV and AIDS spread by infection, but much of the scientific evidence shows that AIDS does not always act like an infectious disease. In the US and other affluent countries, contrary to wild predictions of the 1980's, AIDS has not spread outside the original risk groups


menurutku: itu adalah bantahan terhadap "cara penularan" HIV
Ayat ini biasanya dipakai oleh para denialist untuk membantah penularan HIV karena kontak seksual dan kontak darah-darah.  bukan bantahan terhadap asal usul HIV dari zoonosis.

menurut anda: kalimat yang anda bold itu maksudnya apa? itu bantahan tentang apa?

@Huriah
nyanyi apa bang? hehe

@riandono,

Tentu,  yang saya maksud asal-usul adalah origin,  saya ingin klarifikasi dulu dari anda,  apakah HIV berasal dari SIV itu ?  Jelaskan pula bagaimana hal itu bisa berkembang menyebabkan epidemi AIDS.  Setelah itu saya akan jelaskan maksud saya meng-bold kalimat itu  .........

dan soal black disease terbukti di Papua,  anda masih cari2 datanya ya,  hehehe .....

@Huriah,
nyanyi apa bung,  hahahaha ........Durban Declaration Rebuttal itu bantahan ilmiah,  bukan opini lho,  hehehe ..........

Nah ternyata maksud anda adalah origin,
Terus kesalahan saya menerangkan originnya dari SIV apa dong?

Dari awal tujuan anda membold kalimat itu adalah untuk membantah penjelasan saya ttg origin HIV (mohon di trackback lagi diskusi kita kebelakang). Nggak usah anda terangkan lagi maksud anda membold kalimat
NB: sebaiknya temen2 forser yang lain yang melakukan trackback, biar obyektif

Kalo masalah berkembang menjadi epidemi, itu berarti kita sudah selesai membicarakan origin dan pindah topik ke how to spread...

Oke berarti masalah origin telah kelar, sekarang kita bicara masalah penularan dan penyebaran HIV. Gitu?

---------
TTg black disease di papua, saya kurang paham maksud anda..
Mohon dijelaskan kenapa disebut black disease.
--- Nah kalo ttg ini, baru anda pakai itu kalimat yang anda bold---

Berbicara ttg warna kulit berarti berbicara genomik. Anda punya data genomik? kaitan antara ekspresi gen warna kulit dengan tropisme HIV atau paling tidak dgn reseptor gp120.

Kalo mas mau tau, saya adalah org papua, dan saya tidak kena AIDS.

Halo wha, ternyata Mas Rian ini orang papua toh....

@Mas Ireng: memang warna kulit orang papua dan Afrika sama2 hitam. tapi kan rasnya berbeda negroid dengan Melanesia (ya? ) tingginya kejadian mungkin lebih cocok dihubungkan dengan kemiripan peradaban dan kebudayaan keduanya daripada warna kulitnya....

@astra

hehe iya mas, saya dari Wamena. Hidup Persiwa!!!

Aku juga ireng, hehehe.......

Cuma heran saja,  ras yang di Afrika dan di Amerika, dan juga di Papua,  mudahnya terinfeksi HIV .........??

Dan tentang istilah Black Disease,   agar tidak penasaran silakan baca saja :
"  AIDS in America today is a black disease, "   says Phill Wilson .....

[pranala luar disembunyikan, sila masuk atau daftar.]

jawabannya pertanyaan anda menurut Phill Wilson adalah: karena pemerintah kurang memperhatikan "HIV prevention and treatment programs..."
kita musti memahami bahwa black people di amerika adalah sebagian besar adalah masyarakat miskin.

------
So, maksud anda?

"African healthcare workers who speak out and say that poverty rather than a virus is the main cause of 'AIDS deaths' lose their positions in clinics. Corrupt leaders want to assure the influx of aid money, so they demand that everyone play along with the aid agencies and call for more international funds to treat AIDS. Money to treat malnutrition is less available than money to treat the current issue emblazoned in minds worldwide by the media."

AIDS, Loans, and Africa, 1999

— Dr. John Ruhland, N.D, Seattle



"Nutritional AIDS dominates the scene in South Africa today as indeed it did during Apartheid. In the middle [19]50's and 60's, 50 percent of black children were dead before the age of five. The causes of death were recorded as: Pneumonia, High Fever, Dehydration and intractable Diarrhea due to protein deficiency. Today, these clinical features are called AIDS. Today in South Africa, TB is the leading cause of death and morbidity amongst Africans, but this is called AIDS."

December 8, 2003, address to European Parliament Conference on AIDS in Africa, Brussels

— Dr. Sam Mhlongo, MD, Head of the Department of Family Medicine and Primary Health Care at the Medical University of South Africa, Johannesburg.

Okay, terus kesimpulannya?

"I believe that HIV is a harmless virus and that AIDS is an advanced depressed state of the immune system, a result of malnutrition (such as seen in Africa) and/or drug consumption, be it prescription or non prescription."

(  Anca Pop, PhD, Biochemistry, University of Bucharest, Romania. Biochemist, British Columbia, Canada ).

ou maksud anda diskusi dari asal usul HIV sampai black disease gt? oke deh saya paham,  maaf kalo sblmnya saya kurang paham .

dan apakah anda juga setuju dengan:

Kutip dari: semut-ireng pada Juli 12, 2010, 12:03:23 AM
"I believe that HIV is a harmless virus and that AIDS is an advanced depressed state of the immune system, a result of malnutrition (such as seen in Africa) and/or drug consumption, be it prescription or non prescription."

(  Anca Pop, PhD, Biochemistry, University of Bucharest, Romania. Biochemist, British Columbia, Canada ).

Saya setuju dengan yang di bawah ini,  siapa yang tidak setuju tidak usah tanya2 alasan kenapa saya  setuju,  tapi yang mau bantah dan berikan argumentasi silakan saja ..........:

"  HIV infection is not the cause of AIDS. Severe immune deficiencies, commonly referred to as AIDS, result from the toxicity of many recreational drugs and of most antiretroviral medications, from the abuse of antibiotics and certain therapeutic protocols, from inappropriate life style, and/or from malnutrition, alone or combined."
(  Etienne de Harven  )