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Al-Quran dan Darwin-buat nambah iman

Dimulai oleh FAHMI_T, April 29, 2011, 07:36:03 AM

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0 Anggota dan 1 Pengunjung sedang melihat topik ini.

rafek

Mengenai abiogenesis modern, atau teori Oparin, telah dibuktikan lewat percoban Urey-Miller.
There is impossible to escape the reality, except weaving together all of your imagination to make an alternate reality, and expand your own horizon. But people may call you a madman.

Pi-One

Kutip dari: rafek pada Mei 16, 2011, 05:30:52 PM
Mengenai abiogenesis modern, atau teori Oparin, telah dibuktikan lewat percoban Urey-Miller.
Emang bisa menjelaskan hal sederhana begitu sama asbuner yang cuma niat caper? Bedain teori evolusi dan teori abiogenesis saja dia gagal total, persis dengan 'mahaguru' dia, si tukang obat HY :)

semut-ireng

Kutip dari: rafek pada Mei 16, 2011, 05:24:44 PM
Rasanya debat evolusi vs penciptaan menjalar kemana mana. Dan tidak kunjung selesai. Saya usulkan anda baca tulisan para ilmuan itu sendiri diluar situs Harun Yahya. Dan kebanyakan kreasonis hanya mencoba "menyalahkan" teori evolusi tanpa menjelaskan teori atau keyakinan yg mereka anut. Jelas saja tidak akan ada titik temu. Saya sendiri hanya memaparkan opini berdasarkan apa yg saya ketahui, tanpa motif apapun.

Anda termakan propaganda Pi One,   di forsa ini setiap orang yang menentang evolusi dikatakan pengikutnya si tukang obat HY.   Penyanggah Darwin bukan hanya HY,  banyak sekali,  baik ilmuwan kreasionis maupun atheis.   Sudah saya posting beberapa kali,  ada beberapa hal saya tidak sepakat dengan HY.   Saya menelisik teori ilmiah menggunakan IRP ( Idea Research Paradigm ),  dan banyak referensi lainnya.   Dalam pandangan saya,  teori evolusi dan abiogenesis modern bukan teori ilmiah,  tetapi pseudoscience.   Dan menurut pendapat saya,  para penyanggah Darwinism / Neo-Darwinisme tidak perlu repot2 debat soal fosil palsu atau bukan palsu,  cukup fokus meneropong abiogenesis modern. 


Kutip dari: rafek pada Mei 16, 2011, 05:30:52 PM
Mengenai abiogenesis modern, atau teori Oparin, telah dibuktikan lewat percoban Urey-Miller.

Bukan hanya Oparin ( 1930 ) dan Urey ( 1952 ) serta Miller ( 1953 ) saja yang mengembangkan abiogenesis modern,  ada juga nama2 lain seperti Haldane ( 1928 ) dan Bernal ( 1947 ).  Percobaan yang terkenal memang yang dilakukan oleh Stanley Miller pada tahun 1953.

Pertanyaan saya :  apa alasannya anda mengatakan abiogenesis modern telah dibuktikan lewat percobaan Urey-Miller ??


semut-ireng

Pi One mana berani bilang abiogenesis modern telah berhasil dibuktikan oleh Staley Miller,  entar ketahuan waktu sekolah dalam mata pelajaran Kimia dapetnya endog terus. :D :D :D :D

Pi-One

Kutip dari: semut-ireng pada Mei 17, 2011, 09:59:35 AMaho...aho...
*ignored - malas meladeni asbuner yang memutarbalikkan omongan orang*

semut-ireng

Kutip

Stanley Miller, 77; chemist was a pioneer in studying the origins of life

He drew on the work of University of Chicago chemist Harold C. Urey, who had suggested in 1951 that the early Earth's atmosphere contained methane, ammonia, hydrogen and water — and no oxygen.

Working in Urey's laboratory, Miller placed the four gases in a closed system over a reservoir of water that simulated the early ocean. He heated the water to fill the system with water vapor and repeatedly passed an electrical discharge through the gas to simulate lightning.

Within weeks, he had shown that spontaneous reactions in the system produced 13 of the 21 amino acids — the essential components of proteins — required for life.

Miller's experiments received a strong boost toward credibility Sept. 28, 1969, when a meteorite landed in Murchison, Australia. Analysis showed that the meteorite carried all of the organic chemicals found by Miller in his prebiotic soup, suggesting that they were easily formed under the conditions present in the solar system some 4.5 billion years ago.

www.latimes.com

semut-ireng

#127
WHY  ABIOGENESIS IS IMPOSSIBLE

Jerry Bergman, Ph.D.


The problem of the early evolution of life and the unfounded optimism of scientists was well put by Dawkins.  He concluded that Earth's chemistry was different on our early, lifeless, planet, and that at this time there existed

    ...no life, no biology, only physics and chemistry, and the details of the Earth's chemistry were very different.  Most, though not all, of the informed speculation begins in what has been called the primeval soup, a weak broth of simple organic chemicals in the sea.  Nobody knows how it happened but, somehow, without violating the laws of physics and chemistry, a molecule arose that just happened to have the property of self-copying—a replicator.  This may seem like a big stroke of luck... Freakish or not, this kind of luck does happen... [and] it had to happen only once... What is more, as far as we know, it may have happened on only one planet out of a billion billion planets in the universe.  Of course many people think that it actually happened on lots and lots of planets, but we only have evidence that it happened on one planet, after a lapse of half a billion to a billion years.  So the sort of lucky event we are looking at could be so wildly improbable that the chances of its happening, somewhere in the universe, could be as low as one in a billion billion billion in any one year.  If it did happen on only one planet, anywhere in the universe, that planet has to be our planet—because here we are talking about it (Dawkins, 1996, pp. 282–283, emphasis in original).


History of Modern Abiogenesis Research

Miller acknowledged that scientists may never know precisely where and when life emerged.  "We're trying to discuss a historical event, which is very different from the usual kind of science, and so criteria and methods are very different," he remarked... (Horgan, 1996, p. 139).

The major problem of Millers experiment is well put by Davies,

Making the building blocks of life is easy—amino acids have been found in meteorites and even in outer space.  But just as bricks alone don't make a house, so it takes more than a random collection of amino acids to make life.  Like house bricks, the building blocks of life have to be assembled in a very specific and exceedingly elaborate way before they have the desired function (Davies, 1999, p. 28).


[pranala luar disembunyikan, sila masuk atau daftar.]

Pi-One

#128
Kutip dari: semut-ireng pada Mei 18, 2011, 06:05:10 AMWhy semut-asbun is IDIOT
Cuma idiot yang terus mengklaim abiogenesis sama dengan evolusi...  ::)

Mana nara sumbernya kreasionis yang suka ngulang kaset soak (Ota Benga dll) dan amat benci Darwin (terlihat dari tulisan-tulisannya yang lain). Khas kreasionis fanatis...  ::)

*ignored*

semut-ireng

#129
saya sudah pake sumber lain,  Pi One masih gak bisa lupakan Ota Benga,  lalu main plintiran nuduh orang mengklaim abiogenesis sama dengan evolusi segala .........memang gak ada hubungannya yah ??  Sudah paham golok pembunuh naga untuk teorinya mbah Darwin ? :D :D

Silakan baca dari link yang saya sampaikan di atas  :

Horgan concluded that if he were a creationist today he would focus on the origin of life because this

    ...is by far the weakest strut of the chassis of modern biology.  The origin of life is a science writer's dream.  It abounds with exotic scientists and exotic theories, which are never entirely abandoned or accepted, but merely go in and out of fashion (1996, p. 138).

Pi-One

Kutip dari: semut-ireng pada Mei 18, 2011, 03:11:22 PMboku ga aho
Tuh kan, idiot emang gak bisa dikasih tahu. Dibilang nara sumber dia adalah kreasionis kolot yang masih bawa kaset soak seperti kasus Ota benga dll, dia bahkan gagal menafsirkan itu ::)

Gak heran si idiot ini masih gagal membedakan teori evolusi dan abiogenesis modern. Wong bedain abiogenesis modern dan klasik (generatio spontanea) juga mutlak gagal kok ::)

semut-ireng

okelah anda bilang dia kreasionis kolot,  tapi mana argumentasi / bantahan anda terhadap tulisannya  ?    kalo anda gak bantah ,  itu artinya anda setuju.   mau dibilang Pi One beraninya cuma membantah Harun Yahya ? :D

Pi-One


rafek

Percobaan Urey-Miller membuktikan bahwa asam amino sederhana dapat terbentuk secara alami. Memang percobaan ini hanya menjelaskan secara parsial, namun saya optimis abiogenesis modern akan berkembang seiring berjalannya waktu. Selain itu, masih ada teori abiotik lain, yaitu panspermia.
There is impossible to escape the reality, except weaving together all of your imagination to make an alternate reality, and expand your own horizon. But people may call you a madman.

rizqi_fs

Kutip dari: rafek pada Mei 16, 2011, 05:24:44 PM
Rasanya debat evolusi vs penciptaan menjalar kemana mana. Dan tidak kunjung selesai. Saya usulkan anda baca tulisan para ilmuan itu sendiri diluar situs Harun Yahya. Dan kebanyakan kreasonis hanya mencoba "menyalahkan" teori evolusi tanpa menjelaskan teori atau keyakinan yg mereka anut. Jelas saja tidak akan ada titik temu. Saya sendiri hanya memaparkan opini berdasarkan apa yg saya ketahui, tanpa motif apapun.
klo salah emang harus disalahkan, biar ada perbaikan